#76 What in The Word?
With Oak Mountain
"We are in the middle of a global communications breakdown." - Oak Mountain.
My guest today is philosopher, facilitator, communication coach, mentor, and best-selling author, Oak Mountain. His book "What in The Word? Uncovering The Art Of Speech and The Power Of Language" explores how we communicate and he offers insights and inspiration to be more effectively connected.
For more information, you can find Oak online:
Website: thesmilinghuman.com
Email: thesmilinghumans@gmail.com
To book a free 1:1 session: thesmilinghuman.com/free
IG @thesmilinghuman
YouTube: The Smiling Human
Facebook: Oak Mountain
Book Links:
Canadian Link
US Link
Watch the video of this interview on our YouTube channel.
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Transcript:
Oak Mountain 0:00
Hello, this is Oak Mountain and you are listening to Life Changes Channel.
Deena Kordt 0:08
I think we can all agree that in our world, we're becoming so disconnected from each other, and we know it. But we're struggling to figure out why and how we can change that. Well, my guest today is a fascinating philosopher, facilitator, and a best selling author. Oak Mountain has written a book called "What in The Word? Uncovering The Art of Speech and The Power of Language". It's quite an interesting conversation that we have, where we just kind of dig into the power of the words that we use, and some tips on how to become better connected, how we can be more conscious in the way that we use them. It's really quite interesting.
Now, as we think about what can happen, when we are disconnected, it leads to break downs in relationships of all kinds. And that's a lot of what the content is, in these podcasts that I share with you and the guests that I bring. We are disconnected our relationships are suffering. So tune in now, let's meet Oak, let's learn more about what he's discovered around words.
Welcome, Oak. This is going to be a fun conversation, I can tell already. Because your expertise is in communication. And what is so phenomenal for my audience is the value that you can bring to helping them manage conversations and find you know, polish those skills, learn some new skills, because the stuff that they're dealing with in whatever life change they're going through, if it's even if it involves divorce or not. There's tricky, difficult conversations that can lead to conflict. So I really appreciate you being here to share your expertise and some insights into how we can do that better. Welcome, please tell us more about yourself.
Oak Mountain 2:08
Thank you so much. It's very exciting to be here, I appreciate the opportunity to share and explore with you. As mentioned at the outset of the video, my name is Oak Mountain, I am a best-selling author, communication coach and mentor located on Vancouver Island. I have combined degrees in the study of philosophy and world religions where I wrote my undergraduate thesis on the philosophy of the mystical experience, particularly the language of the mystical experience. So my focus in the work that I do with my company, "The Smiling Human", is helping people elevate their interpersonal communication skills through courses, 1:1 work and workshops that I host here in the greater Victoria area. So it's an exciting life.
Deena Kordt 2:53
Iabsolutely love the name, "The Smiling Human", for multiple reasons. So a lot of what I speak to people about is that human value, creating those compassionate human connections, and how important that is, and as a human, even just not only acknowledging and seeing another human as a human, and not just somebody that's in your way, or somebody you have to deal with, or, you know, however we encounter humans out there is just pause, and smile, even just open that space and help them feel like you've seen them. And you you're connecting in a positive way. So smiling human just just really lines up with, with the message that I'm trying to get out to people too. So you are a coach, and you do help guide people this way. Tell us more about the book that you've written your best selling author.
Oak Mountain 3:49
Yeah, this. For those watching the video book here, what in the word uncovering the art of speech and the power of language. It's a labor of love, we might say, that all started when I had a very sober conversation with myself about the trajectory of my life. I was approaching my 2009. And not particularly feeling grounded or satisfied with how life was going for me at the time. And I asked myself in the month leading up to this, if I were to continue to live as I'm living now, would I be satisfied with the way that my life turned out? And the answer was no. So I thought, okay, that's uncomfortable. No, it isn't kind of what what can I do about it? And so I started visioning and imagining from the very end of my life back, what would it feel like to die completely satisfied with my song sung into this world? And from there, I started working my way back and tried to at least in to whatever degree I was capable of I reverse engineer, a process of getting to that place. And the first thing I landed on was writing a book.
And so I was at a very interesting juncture in my life at that time as well, not only approaching my birthday, but I had a work contract that was ending a relationship that was ending, and a lease that was ending all at the same time, within a few weeks of one another. And so I packed all of my things. And I flew to Mexico. And I partook in what I like to call a sacred Hermitage, where for 33 days, all I did was write for four hours a day. And within the span of one month, Mark, starting on my birthday, I wrote this book, and it was all guided by the intention of service. What is it that I know and believe, to be the most valuable about communication? What are the biggest mistakes, and turmoils that I've experienced or seen other people experience that I believe that if I spoke to them, and added my own voice to them, that if read, might alleviate some of the suffering and conflict that people have in their own lives. And as a result, this is what we got. What Nord
Deena Kordt 6:24
I love that this started with a conversation with yourself. And just really looking at what do you want to do with your life, basically, where so many people find themselves, especially when they are in those major life changes? And you had, you had several happening all at once? And, you know, trying to determine like, you just feel lost, you feel alone, you feel like you're struggling, what direction should I go? And pause to think, okay, let's work backwards. And a lot of people will do that same thing with business goals with all types of goals that they have. But you went right to the end, like end of life? What do I want to be able to look back and see. So it's kind of like having a conversation with your future self. This is where I want to be, this is who I want to be, it might not be really clearly defined. Unless you experience that differently. I know when I've tried to do that you you look ahead. And then you've now taken some actions and created some visions to help, then create and go like, work your way back. What would you say, would be the top three things that you would tell people to, to start that process to just even to start that
Oak Mountain 7:45
the first thing that I would offer is something that was offered to me by not personally, but something that I picked up from a man that I admire, quite deeply. And that's Dr. Jordan Peterson. And he says, you can sit down and have a conversation with yourself again, and ask yourself this question, what's one thing that I would change? And that I could change about my life and my actions? And in doing so, an answer will come necessarily, I like to say that when any question is posed into the universe, it creates a vacuum for information to flow in. And so even when we feel confused, or we feel lost, or without a clear direction, those questions, they, they evoke answers from the deeper parts of ourselves. And if you're living and moving on a trajectory that feels incongruent with your values, that's because you're acting and choosing in congruent with your values. Now, that may be because you don't know your values. It may be because you're scared to take action on them. But regardless, in order to make a first step towards reorientation, and even having the hope of creating a meaningful vision, you have to understand what you're doing now, both in thought speech and action that is impeding that meaningful and value filled action from flowing forth.
Deena Kordt 9:15
Now Oak, would you say that a lot of people get caught up and I'm, I was guilty of this and still am in some areas. We're worried about what other people will think. And that is absolutely dark. Maybe misaligned or, or stuck currently in what we're doing.
Oak Mountain 9:30
Yeah, absolutely. And, and I don't want to give the impression that worrying about what other people think is bad or futile thing. It depends on who we're worried about, and to what degree we allow their conception of us to change our behavior. So what I mean by this is, you know, you obviously have close family members, you've got friends who care a great deal about you who have been influential in your career. If they come to you and say Deena We kind of think you're going off track here, like you might be a bit, you know, too big for your britches. So to say, those kinds of reflections are the most important. And those are the ones we ought to take to heart, if they're coming from people that we can trust to be truthful, and acting in our highest interest, right?
Now, conversely, if we move out into the world, and we're interacting with people who don't know us are motivated by their own self interest, or just don't have the wisdom or wherewithal to offer us of something of value. Those are the ones we can go, Hmm, maybe I'll use my own internal compass, which needs to be cultivated. That's a whole other area of investigation. But I'll rely more on my own internal compass than this perception of others. One thing I would add to this is to say, the reason why it's important that we do care about what others think is twofold. One, we're social creatures. If we are disregarding the perceptions of other people about our behavior, then we're necessarily discounting the value of their experience their humaneness to a degree. And if you take that to the very extreme, you end up with sociopathy and psychopathy and things like this antisocial tendencies.
Now, to the other end, if we overemphasize what other people think is the governing factor for our actions and behaviors, we become people pleasers and spineless and we're never actually integral to our own values. So So to say that in order to maintain balance when attempting to take meaningful action towards our own self development, connection to your own inner voice, is paramount. Because it's the conversation or the balance, and the checks and balances between the external voices of maybe criticism, maybe affirmation, maybe reflection, and this own voice, maybe critical, maybe Affirmative. Who knows. But clarifying the relationship between between those two can help to balance whether or not we're leaning more towards people pleasing or completely dismissing if that makes sense.
Deena Kordt 12:23
Yeah, that does. So tuning into our own voice. So first, just really pausing to determine where we are presently? Do we feel aligned? Or do we just feel lost? Or are there things that light us up? Those types of things to find, you know, that's present? Is that what we're, that's where we're looking in that first step.
Oak Mountain 12:49
Yeah, self development, just like conversation or communication is predicated on listening. And so that requires a degree of presence, a degree of attention and agree, a degree of openness to hear to receive whatever is true. And so we might go, Well, what exactly does it mean, for something to be true? Well, if we are gonna get really simple, I don't wanna get too philosophical here. But if you and I are having a conversation as we are, there's a reasonable degree of certainty that that which is true is what is experienced by you, and by me and our shared experience, right? Literally what I'm saying literally, what you're hearing different facets of the visual and sense experience, right? We can ground ourselves in that truth. And so Okay, let's apply that to the inner world. If I'm closing my eyes, and I'm asking myself, What am I doing that maybe makes me feel weak? Or what could I change that I would change given the opportunity? And something comes up? What is true about that is not necessarily the content of the thought, because maybe it is self critical, maybe it's laden with judgment or shame.
What is true is that the thought is that there and that's what's important. This is what's here. So there's a degree of validity, because it is arising, we can then look at the contents of what's being said, this is like, we can translate this into a conversation or a conflict, right between partners or between, you know, employee, employee or anyone that's having a conflict conversation. When either party, they bring something forward that is strongly emotionally charged, we might say something like, You never listen to me. You're always going off and undermining my work and that it added, right. And I feel pissed. Okay. The truth is, they feel pissed. Right? The content that is being put out can be evaluated for other aspects of truth. But the most in important and relevant peace is starting inside, right? As soon as they start to externalize, that's when we can do the evaluations. And so sifting through, and finding that which has the most weight for truth value can help one reorient both in their relationship to themselves and in conversations with other people. Can I hear the truth of your experience, beyond the stories? Can I really listen and feel wow, she's actually feeling really mad, or she's feeling scared, or lonely or happy or exuberant or whatever. Regardless of if you're saying things that I don't believe to be true. That's the same thing when we're listening to ourselves.
Deena Kordt 15:42
I can relate to that. Because there's such a difference in my conversations, my partner is very calm. And I can come in, it's very rare, but there will be something that has triggered a reaction in me, partly from conditioning of many years of abuse prior to this partnership. And when he's calm, and not as a not reacting to my, at, I really am more conscious. But when you say always in those types of things, those are that's a clue usually that the person's just like reacting, because it's all encompassing. It's saying it happens all the time. So I will be emotional in my reaction, and he's calm, and then it gives me that space to go, Wait a minute, no, I'm not really being fair. You don't always do that. In fact, you rarely do that. But you but when you said this today, it triggered me. And then it just takes that conflict, that it doesn't, there's potential for it doesn't happen. And so he's able to see underneath and beyond this reaction to something and just give me that time and space to sort out. Really, what was it that that hurt? And it probably didn't really have anything to do with how he usually acts just something he happened to say or do. And so I think that's what maybe an example of what you're trying to say is that, if we can get underneath and find what's the truth, what was it? That's actually what's the pain point here? And that works with our own conversation with ourselves then right? So you're saying start there start internally, what do we do next? Then Oak, what would you say? Once we've kind of had that revelation of what is inside when we pause to listen to ourselves, then then what do we do?
Oak Mountain 17:32
develop the skills to clearly articulate that to other people in a way that maximizes the likelihood of being understood and having your needs met. Easier said than done. Right? Let me be the first to say that. Yeah, right. For sure. If we're if we're feeling a 10 out of 10 frustration, it's like, Oh, pardon me while I pause to use my developed and well articulated Lexa. It's like, no, it's like, You're an asshole. That's what's happening now. And until you Okay, well, how, how might we do this, and you sort of hinted at it and drove us, you touched on one of the points that helps in that development stage. And that's listening to, and reflecting on the quality of language that comes up from our inner experiences. So whether or not we're having a conversation with ourselves, or we're actively having a conversation that might be conflict laden with somebody else, when you're like, you're mentioning your partner is just listening, like, Okay, I'm, I'm taking it in, I'm listening, and you're like, oh, I can hear myself. And I'm saying the things. And they're not true. That moment. That's the revelation moment, because now you can go, Okay, I understand that there's a language of pain for me. And my pain language is, you know, you never, you always, you're this year that whatever they are specific to you.
Those are your signposts. And the first things that I would invite anyone who works with me or is looking to do this kind of work, to look to refine. And what exactly do I mean by refining? Well, if we think about any sort of raw material, in this case, its language, we're going to take it from the grossest form the roughest form, and then distill it down into the most valuable and that is going to be the most true the most accountable and the most authentic form of expression. When we use these declarative infinitives, you always you never, they can't be true. Because nothing is always one way or never another. It just doesn't happen this way, unless we're talking about sort of universal laws. And the closer then, okay, so sometimes you do this, and it makes me angry.
Okay, well, we can even look at that sentence and take it one step further. Does it make you angry, or do you feel angry when it happens? as well, that seems like a pedantic difference. But it's in the languaging that we find the governing structures of our thoughts that will either either lead us towards connection, reconnection and intimacy, or away and into resentment. And it's something as simple as when you do this, I feel Yeah. Instead of you made me right, because the you made like 100%. And with blame, comes wrongness comes badness, and grief and resentment. Right. And these are emotional burdens, that bog up the channels between people. And it's okay to feel them. It's okay to be angry and resentful, and frustrated, like we don't want to shame or close away any authentic emotion that arises. What we do want to encourage and what I encourage through this process of learning to language accountably is taking ownership of your experience through powerful expression.
Deena Kordt 21:14
Powerful, more, be more conscious of what you're saying. So like you say, we've refined we refine it down and say what really do I want to communicate? Is my intent to just I feel hurt. So I'm just going to hurt back, I'm going to lash back and say something, that's you always do this, and you make me feel this way. So now they're to blame. You're trying to get a reaction. You don't want to get I want them to react, at least that's how I am. I feel much safer that he doesn't react in that way that he stays calm. But yeah, we want to refine that down. And I liked what you said about whether it's an internal conversation or external with some with someone else. Because internally, how often do we say, oh, I can never get that writer, I just, I always mess up are we as we say those things with that rough language to ourselves as well. So to go, Wait a minute, though, do I and just give ourselves grace for the way we speak to ourselves, I often like to remind people that the the only person you're going to spend every single moment of your entire life with is yourself. So why why would you be a bully to yourself for that? Why not make your best friend that person that you're going to be with? So that convert? I really like that that's where you want us to start? Because if we're mean to ourselves, well, that pain is going to spill out on other people.
Oak Mountain 22:44
Absolutely. And I would add one additional piece to the point you just raised around getting clear on what it is we want to say.
Deena Kordt 22:54
Oak has some incredible insights that we're gonna get right back to; some really great tips, some things for us to consider when we are having conversations either with ourselves or with others. But if you're feeling disconnected, if you're feeling alone, and you're struggling through a divorce, a separation, some type of a major life change in your life, just know you are not alone.
Did you know that every two weeks, we have free online, divorce resource groups, support groups where you can come and talk to our experts, meet them meet others who are going through similar things that you're going through just for sure, you're going to know you aren't alone. And hopefully we can answer some of your questions or direct you to the resources that can help support you through whatever it is you're going through. All of those are listed on our events page and the link is in our show notes, you're also going to be able to get a hold of Oak, follow up with him, get his book, book a session with him. And just learn more about the work that he does. And again, those links will also be in the show notes.
There's lots of resources on our website, if you've never checked it out, there's all the podcasts are listed there. There's a blog, there's our team, people you can reach out to really tons of information there for you. So be sure and check it out. Now let's get back to our conversation with Oak and learn more about what he has to suggest.
Oak Mountain 24:18
Another thing that might be unclear for a lot of people who are struggling with these types of communication habits is why why am I speaking right now? And that sometimes might feel like a weird question like, well, I want to be heard or I have something to say and there's there's sort of like an obvious maybe knee jerk reaction. But if we're looking at the what to say, Okay, I'm saying you never do this. Why am I saying it? Really not just what might my emotional mind reason but what is the actual driving force for me to have this conversation to have this expression? Is it that I genuinely at the very core of my being one of If this person, probably not, right, it's more likely that the pain that is driving that less than artful expression is indicative of an unmet need. And that the methods by which anyone has learned to meet their needs were maladaptive insofar as they are shouting, manipulative, name calling, shutting down all the things that we see inside of communication that fails. So the why is actually, I'm trying to serve myself, I'm trying to meet my own needs, or I'm trying to get you to meet my needs in this moment. And the farther away that the actual words are, that are spoken from the Y, the more difficult it will be to cross that threshold.
So as an example, if I say, Okay, I'm feeling maybe I'm feeling insecure, I'm feeling a little bit under affection, right. And I just need some love today because of whatever has happened. If I can enter into a conversation with my partner and say, Hey, I'm feeling vulnerable and insecure. And I would really love some affection attention right now. Is that something you're available for in this moment? Can we share some cuddles the likelihood that that's going to happen 100 times more, if I try to drop hints, or if I'm subtle, and then 20 minutes later, I go, God, you don't even like me, really? Like what are you doing, I can't even get your attention, you won't pay attention to me, you won't put your phone down. And then there's all of this criticism that comes out. The criticism is still trying to get this, this need met, of of belonging and love and tenderness. But the pathway to get there is halfway through a bog with no boots, we're just doing it in an ineffective way that we have learned and picked up from our parental relationships. So closing that gap is the second piece, the understanding of the what the why and the skills being the how,
Deena Kordt 27:12
right, and you inevitably push them away further, and, and perpetuate this feeling of being alone. And you're gonna be even more alone for probably guaranteed for another few hours or days because of that approach. And there you are in the middle of a bog with no boots.
Oak Mountain 27:32
That's not a place to be. No, it's not a place that anybody wants to be in. And one of the things that, that a lot of people come to me and try to learn is is this element of expression. And remarkably, and yet, I would say Unsurprisingly, the greater their capacity for authentic self expression develops, the better they are at receiving other people's unrefined expressions. Because as we walked the path from the bog to the highway, and clearing all of those shrubs, and all these other things, these bad habits, these coping mechanisms, the blame the projection, all these things, we start to recognize in ourselves, not only the what of those bad habits, but the our authentic pain that has kept them around. And what is this do? Well, you might have this experience in your own life, and the listeners might be able to relate to this, but it's easier for us to relate to pain in others that is familiar to us. Right? Okay, well, my dog died this summer, then someone of my friend's dog dies. And I'm like, I know what that feels like. I'm here with you. And there's an instant, if not instant openness, and empathy and compassion that flows forward, because it is closer to our own truth. It's closer to self. And so as we walk that path, when we encounter other people doing that, we're like, I was there, too. I understand what might I have needed in that moment? How can I now apply and serve others and invite them into greater authenticity and accountability now that I've walked this path myself? So we ended up all bringing each other up the mountain by developing these skills, I believe,
Deena Kordt 29:26
ooh, that's really good. Now, I want to go back aways and unpack something that you were that we started with. But I want to come back to where we are now stuck in the bog and how we can when we've done that to ourselves and and to those around us that we've been attempting to communicate with how we can get out of those conflict spots. But I want to go back to how we engineer when we connect with our end of life. What do we want to be able to look back and See the path we've taken the impact we've made the gifts that we've offered, how we've served, how do we engineer now? How do we engineer that back? How would you suggest? So we start by talking to where find out where we are right now? Have those conversations, and then figure out, well, why am I in this spot? And then is it? What do I want to do? Where do we go from there to start that process?
Oak Mountain 30:24
Sure. Allow me to answer with an analogy. Perfect. It'll make sense as we go. Yeah. So if I asked you, what's two plus seven, you could pretty easily give me an answer, right?
Deena Kordt 30:38
I think it's nine. Right?
Oak Mountain 30:40
If I said to you, then what is 31,421? Multiplied by 718? A really
Deena Kordt 30:48
big number, right? We
Oak Mountain 30:50
don't know. It's because when things are simple, we can do them in our own heads. But as they become more complex, our mental faculties, at least mine, there are some very savvy math whizzes out there. But most of our capacities are limited as complexity increases. So why might we move forward in this world with the assumption that all of the variables that total our life, could be somehow calculated inside of our own mind, it's just not possible. It's one of the most complex math problems that we ever encounter. So just like, you might pick up a pen and paper, to start doing that long form multiplication that I just gave you.
So too, is writing out a vision for yourself a story for yourself. One of the most empowering and emboldening ways to clarify that vision. Because as soon as we start to articulate not just through speech, but also, literally if we say and write it out, all of the other elements that might be complicated or emotionally laden are all these different pieces to us will start to flow, they will start to move, and it's in that movement that they pass through the lens of our focus. Why is this important? When it passes through the lens of focus, it comes closer, let me rephrase that when it passes through the lens of our focus, it enters into the domain of our own will, if we can see it. And it's of our own mind, of our own emotions of our own actions, we can do something about it.
But when it's lodged down into hopes and memories, and childhood traumas, it's knotted up in so much emotionality, and so much of our survival, neurophysiology, that accessing the clarity necessary for meaningful action is all that more difficult. So we can unravel. Through writing, we can clarify, through writing, we can discover and come into contact with what some may call intuition, through writing. Because we open up the channels of our authenticity and creativity, simultaneously, and direct them towards what is arguably the most meaningful goal, which is living a fulfilled life.
Deena Kordt 33:28
That's amazing. And then the actions start to make themselves visible, you start to understand, oh, this is an action I could take towards it. Also, that you can adjust that, like you said, it's a very complicated calculation. But that we can be open to okay, this is where I am now. This is the goal I would like to reach. How can I unravel the emotion from it and then use the creativity and those inspirations to now determine some actions. And once you start exploring that, maybe it will go another direction, but at least you are moving forward and you are evolving towards that end goal. Would you say that that is kind of a summary?
Oak Mountain 34:17
Yeah, absolutely. And I would add to that the emotions themselves are something that are meaningfully informative that it's not simply that we unravel them and then go Oh, thank God that shame is gone and fear is gone. They're actually very dense pieces of emotion. Or sorry, information rather, the emotion is dense pieces of information. That can be self revelatory. Ah, and so yes, we can take and go okay, you know, what am I doing that's maybe stupid and ignorant and taking me down the wrong path and informed by a wrong conception. But also, how am I feeling? And what does this tell me? About my actions or my relationships or my values, right? They don't need to be the governing force, but they are a an invaluable companion on the journey
Deena Kordt 35:14
along the way. I like that. Yes, thank
Oak Mountain 35:18
you know sometimes Yeah, you're welcome. Sometimes I see in this is actually a difference I see between men and women is that a lot of times men will undervalue the information that's available in emotions and women will overvalue it. And obviously, that's my own bias. And it's just an average that I've seen. But there's detriments to both the dismissal of that information precludes one from self knowledge. And the overemphasis can lead to, we might say, complete submersion, where you don't see the forest through the trees. So there's a delicate balance there as well.
Deena Kordt 35:57
And our instincts really play into that it's something that we I think, tend to ignore, or have chosen to downplay, but they are speaking and I think our emotions are instincts, like they they're kind of integral in some ways, because that is a reaction. That is, that's something that is, it's not necessarily clear in a word form that we can, it's a feeling, it's something it's feels vague, unless you really learn to tune into it. And I think that's very important to you are maybe familiar with Gavin de Becker, his work "The Gift of Fear", and you know, that it's, it's quite a fascinating read, and he the gift of fear, he's talking about instincts, not always in a in a danger or fear way, but that we have really become, oh, probably conditioned, you know, people might laugh at me, if I say, Oh, that looks suspicious, or I feel uncomfortable, or I'm being you know, oh, you're being paranoid, if it's in that way, but I like to also think of our instincts, as curiosity. And I'd like to try that. And people are like, huh, are you sure, but that we follow something that draws us and pulls us and, and I think what you're saying too, is what what is drawing you to that path, that life path, and to listen to that and, and take action towards it?
Oak Mountain 37:26
Absolutely. I used to say inside of the workshops that I was teaching while living in Mexico, that fear is our greatest ally. And it's often misrepresented, because if without fear, there's no capacity to survive or make important decisions regarding our own enduring life. And the one thing that's happened and happens quite frequently is that there's a hijacking of that fear that through trauma or conditioning, or what have you that we start to have this fear response to things that are actually not threatening, not genuinely life threatening, they're emotionally threatening, they might signal or remind us or be connected to that threatening. But all of that, at least from my perspective, is language double, if not already language.
And so when you're speaking to the vagueness of the emotional realm, clarifying that space is a part of both the first step of that inner listening and the second step of articulation, because it's necessarily more of you. That is becoming, so to say, higher definition. And the higher the definition picture you have of yourself, you have a higher definition, understanding of your motivations, your desires, your fears, your needs, all of these things will not only help you down this path of of life authorship that we're speaking to, but also help you in those moments of conflict with other people. Because now your motivations aren't some mysterious force at the back of your gray matter, animating your body without any control, but they're known to you as parts of you. Because they've passed through that filter of focus and are now in the realm and the domain of your will.
Deena Kordt 39:29
I love that Oak. And the thing that I could see as being a very powerful tool that you've already shared with us is writing and how that helps us put it into words and clarify and really get in touch with what we're feeling instead of just being vague. That's amazing. Now, I'm going to go back to the conflict. So we're, we're now in the middle of the bog, we've we're, we've said things that we know, was really rough and really out there and not authentic How do we manage to resolve conflicts that whether we've created them? Or we found ourselves in them? What are some communication skills that you would suggest we practice? It is practice.
Oak Mountain 40:15
Yeah, it is absolutely a practice, I might separate the answers into two parts, one answer being for when we're in the middle of a conversation that's already derailed, and the other for how to mitigate the likelihood of ending up in a conflict conversation, because there's a bit of a different avenue there. Now, as for the first one, one of the things that I think I'm harping on over and over again, is clarity in speech. And just like you mirrored it really powerfully, earlier earlier, Deena is saying, hey, wait a minute. I'm not being fair. Right? That's not necessarily the specific thing that needs to be said. But if you are in light of a conflict, and you realize that your own communication has departed, from your ideal, has now entered in the realm of perhaps violent language, or blaming or things like that, yes, it's going to feel scary to acknowledge that. But that is what needs to take place, there needs to be accountability in order for anyone else involved in this conversation, to be able to downregulate.
Right, because when it's nothing, not nothing, there are a few things more frustrating than trying to engage with someone who won't take responsibility for what they're doing or saying, right. And so we are, as I mentioned earlier, social creatures by nature, and we can necessarily invite others into actions by taking them ourselves. And so if you stopped to say, Okay, I am obviously angry and yelling, and I'm not speaking to you kindly, and I don't like that. Great, there's accountability. The second step, which is very difficult when you're in the muck, is to be able to identify what you need in order to bring yourself back into a state of regulation in order to have a meaningful conversation. But now, if we're imagining that shouting, and everything's happening, it's likely that you can't do that inside of the conversation. And so one thing I recommend is being able to just take a step back, move into a space where you are able to either generate for yourself or find in your environment, the space to regulate long enough to have that look at yourself, what is it that I actually need? Why am I saying the things that I'm saying, What am I actually feeling, because instead of just allowing the sort of spray and pray style of conflict, saying whatever comes out of the mind, if I can get right down to the root of it, not only is the conversation likely to be shorter, but it's likely to be more productive. So accountability, space, and re approaching with "I" statements.
And I'll use this "I" statement as the bridge here, between the first section of when we're in conflict, and the second section about mitigating or resolving, maybe I don't say avoiding but lowering the likelihood of fights taking place. So the I statement, there's a lot of nuance with the I statements, and there's so many little holes that people can fall into, and I find myself falling into them as well. So easy distinction. If your sentence starts with i, that's a nice statement, I think I feel I believe I need I want. I think I feel I believe I need I want. Great, right? If we're starting with you. This, even if it's a compliment can be it can be capable of introducing a dynamic that can destabilize, right? Because it is and we'll get to that later. It is a form of manipulation positive or negative. So starting with "I" statements, think need belief, feel want. From here, I recommend if you need to approach someone about a topic that is likely to cause conflict, that we start in three parts. The first part being the fears that you have about having this conversation.
So I could come to you and say, Deena, I need to talk to you about something. I'm afraid that when I tell you that you're going to start yelling, that you're going to think less of me that you won't want to be my friend anymore and and that you're gonna think I'm an awful, beastly human. And I'm just really afraid of that. It'd be like, Well, okay. Second step is the hopes. I hope that you will listen kindly, that you will allow me to speak with out interrupting, I hope that you'll still want to be my friend afterwards. And I hope that you'll forgive me for any hurt that I've caused to you through my actions or through sharing this. So right now, we have just cracked ourselves wide open accountably and vulnerably. To say, here's what I'm afraid of. Here's what I'm aiming towards making our intentions clear with this hope. And then you can say, I broke your favorite vase. I was playing baseball in the house, I'm sorry, right? Whatever it is, you can offer that forward.
And this framework, I call it the Hard Talk formula, it's actually something that's available. As one of my online courses a step by step formula for making life's hardest conversations easier, is that when we do this, we can also invite the other person into that same framework. So say, hey, you know, what do you before I even tell you, what are you afraid of about me saying this, so I'm afraid it's gonna be something horrible. And then it's the you know, that you've killed one of my family members, or God knows what it is, you know, people's fears go off the map, I really hope that that I can be calm enough to listen to you, okay? The structure itself mitigates against the chaos that can come from that maybe less than skillful. environment that arises internally when the emotions take over. So having a structure to fall back on is crucial.
Deena Kordt 46:55
And it feels like you're appealing to their higher self, you're, you're appealing to them in that way, by being vulnerable, and saying, you know, I hope that you can allow this, I fear that, you know, this could happen. And it, it's like, it creates that cushion of compassion in that person, because you are, are being you're offering offering an evolve vulnerable way, what your fears and hopes are, and then that creates that structure.
Oak Mountain 47:26
As much as it can appear to be an appeal to their higher self, I think that it's also it could be formulated as an invitation from yours to theirs. Ah, yes. Right. Because when you're connected to your fears, capable of articulating them courageous enough to offer them into the space, you know, sensitive enough to understand your hopes and motivations, and again, courageous enough to offer that to somebody else, you're embodying a higher if we want to say this a more mature, more grounded, more conscientious version of yourself as the leading edge of potential conflict. And we are social beings, I'll say it again. And we have neurology like mirror neurons, if you're familiar with these, there are parts of our brain that literally cannot distinguish between self and other. So when we witnessed someone doing something, part of our brain thinks it's us. Imagine how powerful that is, if someone is leading with compassion, vulnerability, and authenticity, versus leading with finger pointing and blame, well, what comes on? Well, maybe I'll do the same monkey see monkey do, right? There's a part of us that is compelled to do that. So we maximize the likelihood of resolution we maximize the likelihood of our needs being met, of being heard, and of four other people also being heard and us understanding them by being able to start with that structure.
Deena Kordt 48:54
That's beautiful. That's amazing. Now where can people find you, your book your courses? How can they connect with you Oak because there's so much more that you have to offer and that you've built for people to help them articulate to improve their communication skills and, you know, even manage these difficult conversations. Yeah,
Oak Mountain 49:16
you bet. I'm available on the internet - thesmilinghuman.com is my website. If you go to the smiling human.com/free You can book in for a free 1:1 session if you're struggling with the types of problems that we discussed here today. You can find me on Instagram @thesmilinghuman. The link in my bio has links to the American and the Canadian Amazon store for my book. My courses are also available through that link tree as well. If you're curious, you just want to send me an email you could do so at thesmilinghumans with an s@gmail.com
Deena Kordt 49:50
Okay, cool. And we'll have all those links in the show notes. So don't panic if you didn't have a pen and paper you're out driving wheel or listening in the shower which apparently A lot of people do, then you can just click on those hyperlinks, thank you so much Oak for spending time with us today. It's very encouraging to hear how we can work towards engineering a life that we can be very satisfied and proud of, and also how we can rise above our primal communication habits to to really decrease the damage that we do to ourselves and those around us by having conflicting conflicting interactions. So thank you very much for for that encouragement for being with us. Is there any parting thought that you would like to leave with the audience?
Oak Mountain 50:47
Absolutely, I'd love to share a quote, if I may, please do quote from chapter one of my book, it's not my quote. It's again by Dr. Jordan Peterson. But this is something that I think, sums up the total of our conversation today, "Courageous and truthful words will render your reality simple, well defined and habitable".
Deena Kordt 51:17
Yes, beautiful. Thank you.
Oak Mountain 51:20
Thank you so much.
Deena Kordt 51:23
Hopefully you heard something today that helps you wherever you might be in life. Do you have questions or a suggestion for a topic you want to know more about? Let me know. Check the show notes for all the contact information. Follow this podcast and find us on social. Know anyone who might find this information helpful. Be a friend and share it. And hey, thank you for hanging out with me today. Keep smiling up beautiful smile. The world needs your sunshine.
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