#81 Hope in Hell Series: Hard Conversations
With Dawn Shandley
When you know your ‘why’ and the need to find safety from abuse, you don’t need to know all of the ‘how's’.
Dawn Shandley created New Life Divorce Coaching to help women through their journey of leaving unsafe abusive relationships. In this episode she shares tips for figuring out the how's - from how to have hard conversations to why documenting is so important to protect yourself.
~~~
For more information, you can find Dawn online:
Website: newlifedivorcecoaching.ca
Email: newlifedivorcecoaching@gmail.com
Facebook: New Life Divorce Coaching
Instagram: newlifedivorcecoaching
LinkedIn: Dawn Shandley
Read her guest blog on Divorce Magazine Canada website.
Watch the video of this interview on our YouTube channel.
~~~
If you are experiencing abuse, or want to support someone who is, there are many resources available for you.
Find help:
The Today Centre (Edmonton)
Women on Wings (Calgary)
Women's Shelters (Alberta)
Women's Shelters (Canada)
You Are the Change
Contribute your voice to the "Hope in Hell" compilation book.
Get your copy of the FREE eBook "YOU are the CHANGE".
Join the "Hope in Hell" online support group for women.
_____________________________
Your opinion matters! Tell me how I can help you.
PLUS! You can WIN one of multiple draws for assorted gift cards!
To enter, take my quick survey & share your feedback.
_____________________________
Join us in our twice-monthly online Divorce Resource Groups.
Subscribe to our podcast so you'll be notified when new episodes drop.
Connect with us @ lifechangesmag.com where you'll find:
magazines (past & present) as downloadable PDFs
events schedule & links
team contacts, interviews, articles
how you can join our team
You are not alone. We want to help :)
_____________________________
Please refer to our Terms of Service available at this link: lifechangesmag.com/terms-of-service
Transcript:
Dawn Shandley 0:00
Hi, this is Dawn and we are listening to the Life Changes Channel.
Deena Kordt 0:06
If you are questioning your safety, if you are feeling threatened, even if it isn't physical, you question your sanity, you're afraid to talk to others about it, you're not sure if it's abuse, or you do not to abuse but you're afraid to seek help, you don't really know where to turn, you are not alone.
My guest today is Dawn Shandley, we're going to be talking about abuse. And when you realize that something needs to change, you know your why you know that you need to get safety, you don't need to know the how you don't need to understand the process of how you're going to find that safety. Because you've made that first step, you realize that there are people here that are able to help you. And we're in my conversation today with Dawn, who is with New Life Divorce Coaching. She helps people get out of situations like she found herself in.
And often you feel alone, you feel embarrassed, you don't know where to start. And you don't even know how you're going to protect yourself in a court of law against this type of thing. We're going to talk about those hard conversations you need to have what you can be doing, to set yourself up for safety in the future, how you can respond in these situations. It's a really, really powerful, important conversation.
Now my name is Deena Kordt. I publish Divorce Magazine Canada, and Life Changes Magazine. I also host online support groups to help people through divorce and separation. But most especially, there is also a group called "Hope in Hell", which is a women's support group. These are online, they're free to attend. And everybody is welcome. I encourage you to listen to this conversation, whether it applies to you, whether you are already out of a situation, and you're still dealing with that. Or if there's someone that you know, or care about who you are concerned about their safety or to help them in these situations. Maybe they need you to reach in because they don't feel safe to reach out. Now, let's meet Dawn.
It's nice to have you here on the podcast. It's really been fun getting to know you and what you do and your approach. And you are often in our divorce resource groups online, on meetup via zoom. And you've been able to help people with some of the questions they have and the places that they're stuck. And, you know, we can talk about one particular thing today, but we'll have you back to, to talk about more of those tricky spots that people bump into. So thank you for being here. And the first thing we're going to tackle and in today's topic is around the hard conversations, and that can really set the tone for the entire process. So tell us a bit about Yeah, let's first because this is the first episode you've been on. Tell us a bit about you. Your why how you ended up doing what you are doing as a divorce coach.
Dawn Shandley 3:15
Yeah, I would love to share my story. I like to share it with anybody that wants to see how I feel my story and how I ended up getting to do what I do today is is I lived it. I was in a long time marriage I was I was young, not an excuse, but that's just the reality of it. I didn't know any different at the time. Now looking back, I see the signs that I ignored. It was very high conflict, it was very controlling. Turns out he is has narcissistic traits, which I didn't know was a thing back in the early 2000s. Now I see it but then I didn't and I just thought that that was normal behavior. And it was very psychologically controlling, like logical psychological aggression. I thought this was normal behavior. And over time, you know, I ended up having two daughters, they're now 2018. So they're young women now. And they were my why I couldn't understand how being treated like that was, was healthy.
And when I became a mom to not one but two girls, I thought how am I supposed to raise them and think this is, this is what I want them to spend their life with or grow up thinking this is normal and how I would want them to be treated. So I really had to dig deep and figure out my why and how I was going to get out. I didn't have any money back then. I didn't know how I was going to be a single mom with two girls. I didn't I was working nights, so I didn't have to pay child care. Like I really and I'd never lived on my own before I lived with him only are my parents How do you go about doing this? How do you get out, when you have no money, you don't have a lot of friends back then that understood it, I really had to figure out how to get out.
So one day, I remember looking at my older daughter, she would have been four or five at the time. And I remember putting her to bed thinking, he was so peaceful and sleeping, I'm like, I want to hold on to this moment. And give make sure this is something never taken away from them. Knowing that they go to bed and safe house, they're not going to listen to screaming and fighting. And it was literally that moment, I remember tucking her in being like, I have to go. And within two weeks, I found I don't know how I found it. But I did. I just told him, I'm like, this isn't working for me, this isn't safe for the kids or me, didn't go very well. It was very high conflict. And it didn't, I didn't leave in a safe place. I ended up leaving. And with my mom's support, I ended up getting a basement suite on my own. And I remember thinking, and this is a big part of something I really want to share with with everybody is when you find your why to get out, you don't have to have all the answers.
You don't have to know where everything is going to come from and have everything in place. You just have to know that you can do it. And you do have the power to do it. And I can speak from that experience. And I've never forgotten that moment where I packed my stuff. And I said this is done. And I was so afraid I was shaking. I was sweating, thinking what the hell am I doing? What am I going to do, but I did it because I knew I had to do it for my kids. I had to do it to show them that there's something else outside of this. And then so I said I found my basement suite. And and something I want to share with with everybody is there came a point where I like I said I'd never lived on my own. I found this little basement suite for me and my daughters.
And I remember that first night, and it still gives me goosebumps is I remember locking the door to my basement suite thinking, nobody else has a key. This is my house. And I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. And it's a little emotional for me because it's it was like, almost 20 years ago, and it still affects me like that, that you can do it. And you can find your why and you can get out and from that for myself. And now I had to figure out how do I get divorced? Now I've left How do I do it? No money, no understanding of the law back then just it just didn't know, started researching. This would have been like early 2000s. So I mean, cell phones weren't like the way they are now everything was to go to the library to go to score, right? I did it and I look back. I'm like, How the heck did I even do that? I just did it. Because like I had to do it.
And you have to find your reason. And you have to find your why without even knowing all the answers to it. And I jumped out and I did it. And I had to do the court paperwork, I've had to find resources that didn't have the money to pay for a lawyer how to do the paperwork, how to draft it. And then there was a time where we had to go to many court proceedings. And I had to cross examine him myself under oath. And it was I had to cross examine him myself, like I'd said, with no understanding really of the law, thank goodness that the judge was very patient. But I did it. And that that day, I remember being in the court cross examining him doing what we had to do for the paperwork thinking, what's going on right now. Like I was so disconnected from the day, but I remember leaving the courthouse being like, I can do anything. I really can do anything. And I remember that feeling going, Wow, if I can do that I can literally do anything. And I remember that day is why I do what I do now, because I've lived through all of these things myself. And it doesn't just go away easy overnight. It's a long process, but I can do it. You guys can do it. That's that's the big story. That's your why right? What is your why? That's my background of it.
Deena Kordt 9:12
So let's jump in Dawn, and I so appreciate you sharing that because it's powerful. It gives people hope and encouragement. It really does. Let's jump into those hard conversations. So it is probably one of the toughest things people have to do whether it's actually speaking to their partner or spouse about their feelings and where they would like things to go. How do you tell your children, your family? How do you ask for help and continue these and you know how it's very important, like I said earlier, you know really sets the tone and can help de escalate. I think that's a word. What is happening or the potential what where it could go sideways?
Dawn Shandley 10:02
Well, in these hard conversations is a big component of it is for people, for any, for anyone that's in these sorts of relationships. And it goes back to what I said earlier about, like, how do you get out? How do you take those steps? Well, I didn't have a roadmap back then I didn't have the tools that I have developed over the years. And when you are in these environments for so long, you, you have learned patterns in your body from them, you learn to adapt, you learn to survive their survival instincts, right. So these traumas and environments, most of us just become complacent to it.
Because like we said, we don't have the tools to get out, right. And I try and tell clients is over and over again. So trauma is, is not the event that happens to you trauma is what your body holds on to after something happens. So you know, I'm sure people have told you like, oh, you can choose if people affect you in your day or not? Well, it's it's truthful, right. So if you have to think of traumas like a circle base, you're up here, the trauma happens to you over and over, and over and over and over again, if you can't complete that loop back to calm, you kind of stay stuck in this component down here, where oh, it's back trauma, again, oh, back up back to trauma, you never get back to calm. This keeps building and building and building in your body to become learn patterns in your body. It because they skip stored inside your body and that your trauma.
If you can't learn to let that out. That's usually where the fear based decisions come into where you stay, because you can't you know what's coming for you, the minute you speak up, or the minute you're, you know what you want to do, but you don't know how to get it out. That's why I try and teach, like clients, these hard conversations and the stress responses stop us from making them making the decisions for ourselves. Because we're afraid it's all fear based decisions, right? Because if your brain and your heart are not working together, which one are you listening to? Right? So I think, how do you do? How do you get this out of your mouth into a conversation with a family member or specifically say your spouse, you want to get out? The number one thing I always want everybody to remember is you have to find their pain point.
Every single person has a pain point. It could be social standing, it could be financial, it could be it can be any number of things. But those are usually or if you're afraid of losing your children. Those are usually your biggest reasons. There are people's reasons why they don't want to give up the power, I guess you'll say. So. For instance, if somebody has a pain point of financial gain, or financial loss, I guess that would be their pain point. How do you communicate with that? So an example if you are trying to communicate with somebody and saying their pain point is we'll say the financial portion of it, if you're going on about social standing stuff, they're not hearing you, because that's not what they care about, you have to find their pain point is what they care about deep rooted inside of them. They care about this more than anything else, kids money, whatever.
Once you find that component to it, that's the that is the basis on how you communicate with them. So if you're not, it's like you're speaking a foreign language to them, because they're not, it doesn't make sense to them. Right? That is your, the pain point is huge. I mean, if you logically think about that with any sort of person, they're going to be more open to hearing kind of what you have to say to them, they're going to be like, Oh, what are you giving me? And if they think that they're getting, getting something from you, they're going to automatically be more open minded, because people are genetically built that way about what am I getting out of this. So if you present the conversation with that first, that is huge. Definitely the pain points and you probably know your, your spouse, more than anybody else, what their pain point is.
So that's not something you can ask anybody else about pain point would be the first one. I'd probably say the next one would be picking the right time and the right place to have these conversations. Sometimes we're in these volatile situations, and I tell clients, I'm like driving your kid to soccer practice and screaming at your spouse is probably not the best time to have these conversations. I mean, you have to kind of bite your tongue and think, okay, like, is this a quiet place? Are the kids here? Because if you don't, you're never going to have the power amongst like in yourself to be able to say what you want to say knowing Oh, is there a little person listening on the background?
So pain point number one, right time, right place. Super important. Now, with that components, something I want everybody to remember is is documenting these conversations because if you're saying it is person, how do you prove I guess breaking it down? How do you prove what was said and agreed upon? Email it, email it to your spouse, email it to them saying this is what we've talked about and kind of paint, like, pinpoint it. So then there's a paper trail and data so that you both know what was agreed upon. So you can't go back and say, Well, you said this. And he said that, and then it takes all the emotion out of it. It's just documenting is so huge, always document conversations. super huge.
Deena Kordt 15:33
I want to unpack this Dawn, because there is really some amazing points here that you've made. So on the pain points, yeah, I think it's also really, really important. And I've heard this mentioned before, that you don't only address the pain point as bringing it up and saying, you know, I realize your, your you'll be concerned about the finances, we could save. But also think ahead. What, what type of solutions are you also going to offer, not just bring it up, and then you both sit there going, Oh, my God freak out. I don't know what we're going to do. And then it's then it escalates again, and even practice role playing some of those conversations with someone like a divorce coach and say, let's, you know, just kind of work it through what I'm going to say, well, what if she says or he says, What if they respond this way? What if they respond that way? How can you keep it calm? How can you offer a solution is? Or what if they request that it goes this way? Can you think of a solution that you could both be happy with potentially, or a direction at least you might not yet have the full solution but a direction? And then the timing? Yes, the timing. I mean, that can be really tricky, especially if there's little ones to try and find a time when you have that space.
But to help reduce the trauma to children, which there are so many studies, there's people that like, I've had them in the symposium, as well as in the magazine and on podcasts around reforming the family justice system. And there's a Justice Rod Jerke and Diana Lowe are two people that are very active in trying to make a difference. And it's on the basis of what trauma does to children and the long term effects on their brains. So it's very important timing and these conversations that we can help reduce that, that trauma in our families, and then documenting I was really because right away, I'm thinking okay, document shirt, could journal it. How do you prove the timing of when you journal that the email assaults that because there's date stamps on the email, it's documented, and, and that way it keeps it written down? And yeah, I just, I really I like that tip as well. A big
Dawn Shandley 17:55
portion of is, is with my practice is everybody comes to me. And then we find out that there's these conversations that have happened. And we find out that they're not documented anywhere, which creates such an issue for your your paralegal, if she's doing your paperwork or your lawyer if they're taking your file. Because it's he said she said then so it is so critical to get stuff documented. Even they don't have to respond. I mean, if you send an email to them, just saying we this is what we've we've gotten agreed upon, or what we talked about, it doesn't matter if they respond to it, it's a matter of it being documented from your end of it. It's dated in time.
So as your process goes on, and on and on, all of a sudden, you're building this, this email file of conversations, and it's not one off, you're gonna have many, many more, it's like your own little journal, but then it's supplied to the other party. And that is such a huge component of client files where they just don't document stuff. And a couple years ago, when they change the divorce act here in Canada, they now allow courts now look at patterns of behavior, where a lot of clients, get them to do a timeline from when they met and document every single thing that has happened. And it takes a lot of time. But if you can't prove something that happened or was said, that's fine, you can still add it to these timelines to document it because over a pattern of years, that say it's an abuse situation, we'll just use that example. He did this or he did that or he hit me in the face or he pushed me down the stairs or he locked me out of the house or whatever. All of that gets written down on these timelines.
Maybe you can't prove it. But courts look at that if there's years of these behaviors that have been happening. All of a sudden you have all this stuff on paper, the courts will look at and be like, that's a lot to lie about. They they show credibility to people now see, you doesn't matter if you can prove it or not just get it written down. And you'd be so surprised how much stuff starts oozing out of you when you get these timelines done. But that's all your trauma. Remember we talked about early insistence inside of you, as soon as you start writing that out, you need to start getting that out, you get to start feeling and then you get to loop yourself back to calm. And something you haven't done probably for a really long time, it's get back up to here to calm, so documenting is so important.
Deena Kordt 20:14
And part of this process on is being conscious of your own behaviors and reactions, because that will be a go against you, if you are very reactive, and especially in some abusive situations where you are, you know, they're trying to instigate the reaction and you because they always have been able to, and they know that then that makes them look more like a victim. And it's, it's in their favor, and, and so really be conscious than have in these conversations. And then in the documenting that's done. You know, be careful that you also aren't reacting or overreacting and, you know, pause, and just think about it.
The other thing I like about the documenting is that two people have a conversation, but they both think it was a different, you know, you could ask both of them separately, they both think it's a different outcome. So when you get it in writing, then you can kind of go well, no, this is I thought we decided this or no, this is what you said and and, you know, the courts as well can kind of follow that process of who's the one that's being more reasonable? Or who's the one that's always saying, No, that reality is false, you know, and gaslighting or whatever it might be.
Dawn Shandley 21:32
So 100 percent, like I tell clients all the time, like, clients come to me with whatever their story is. And they kind of get here we're starting at this point, I'm like, the number one thing I try and get clients to do is to teach them the difference between emotionally reacting to things, which is pretty much everybody because it's our nature nature is to respond emotionally be like You're You're lying. That's not factual. That's not what we talked about, like you just said, it's that engagement. So I try and explain to clients the the, kind of like the long game of it. So I said, if you can provide documentation to prove your side, there's no motion.
And it's fact based, courts only want to see fact based information and solution focused responses. So if you can take out your emotion out of it, and you're over time emailing and texting with facts, only solutions, ports, and then your spouse or other party is still emotionally reacting. Now go back to that pattern of behavior and those patterns Who do you think the courts favor or show credibility to when you have fact based solutions, or the other party's still emotionally engaging, you're automatically building your credibility for the court system in your side of things, because you have evidence you haven't documented and you're not emotionally responding to it. And it's they're like, ah, like, it's an aha moment. For them. I'm like, it's the long game, what courts are going to look at, you're not getting before a judge in a week, you're looking at months or years before this all gets sorted out. So think about all that documentation that you're going to have super critical component of it.
Deena Kordt 23:05
And speaking of pain points, who will know your pain points, just like when we are planning the conversations and the pain point of our partner that we can help address. They also are very aware of our pain point and know how to rile you up and used to push? Oh, yeah,
Dawn Shandley 23:24
do they ever know and but that goes back to when I try and educate clients and like, you get to make that decision you get to choose when you have the power. And I said and quite honestly, if I can be so blunt here is we've always been on and myself and put on the defense. You're always waiting for the shoe to drop. You don't want to say anything, you're just better just to let it just go. I said, find that moment where you get to be on the offense. And where you get to be on the offense is when you stop responding because if if they're sending you text messages, what does it have to do with like, firstly, you picture a stop sign and stop yourself, which is very difficult to do. But you have to do that. That one little stop sign changes everything moving forward. Because you have to realize are is your spouse or other party? Knowing your pain, your pain points, how to push your buttons? Of course they do their that's their power.
So are you going to allow them to keep taking that or are you going to stop sign it and say, Nope, I'm on the offense today? What do you actually need to respond to? Is it anything to do with anything with the children the child drop off doctor's appointments, children or your financial selling the house other than that, don't engage it they're just baiting you like the you've been in? This is the the relationship dynamic that goes back to that learned environments we talked about earlier, your body just knows and you instantly just start doing this in response because they know you.
Deena Kordt 24:51
I've got a couple more questions. One is text messages screenshots of those. Yep. So if it if it does Does display the date and time? Or is there a way to add that to your documentation?
Dawn Shandley 25:04
Absolutely. Emails, texting, anything that you can prove on paper, documenting your side of things, what because you're going to come in with this is what's actually going on. And like a lot of my clients are dealing with narcissistic spouses or there's a different components other than just like we're not getting along, you have to really take this component of fact, based text messaging to this, because what you said earlier, but two people are in the same conversations, but they don't hear it the same way. Right. So text messages are just as valid as emails, anything on paper, anything.
Deena Kordt 25:41
And my last question is around those hard conversations with your children.
Dawn Shandley 25:47
Yeah, that the kids are something like I'm not a counselor, by any means, just from my own personal experience, and from my own therapy that I went through through years is to try and know how to raise my kids. And like I said, My daughters are 20 and 18. Now, and I am so happy with when they grow up, and you look at them, you're like, Wow, I did that. Yes. They saw their dad, they had this, they I've been happily remarried for almost 10 years, and they've had a solid parental figure day in and day out in their life, and their dad is still in their life, you still see them. With that being said, something that a therapist told me a long time ago, and it really stuck with me was he said to me, he goes, if you lie to your children, you make it worse. He goes age appropriately tells them the truth. And that is stuck with me. Up until now, like I said, they're adults now. Like, they're their whole life, I'd be like, okay, they know what's going on. They even if you don't say a word, they know you well enough, they can look at you and be like, ooh, mums upset or dad's upset. They know.
So isn't it better to have age appropriate, honest conversations with them, giving them the bits of information that they need, because I can tell you firsthand, it will spiral in their mind what they think it's actually about. And they always think it's about them. They always feel like it's their fault. They always feel like they've done something, and it can be in their mind. I've heard it like my own children, as well as clients children that, oh, I didn't make my bed today, mom was really upset with me, what their little minds are thinking is going on is not factual. So if you give them that honest, age appropriate information, so therefore, you would tell them something at a four year old level that they would comprehend me, I'm a huge believer in getting therapy and some supports for that. So if you need that, reach out, get the support. If you can't afford it reach out to professionals, we can prove that we can point you in the direction to get the support so that you're not having to have these conversations with your children alone. But boy, oh boy, they know they know something's going on, if there hasn't been violence in front of them, and mum and dad just aren't getting along, or mums and mums or dads and dads or whatever your situation is. They know.
So if you don't have the courage to tell them the truth, what is that doing for them long term back to that trauma that we talked about earlier, these children grow up with their trauma, but if they have tools, from a therapist, or knowing that mom or dad was honest with them, it makes a huge difference. And I can speak to that, like for my own experience. I talked to my daughters now about it, they're like Mum, you were always really, really honest. And I'm thinking oh my god, that work that was great. And it's it that from my own story that that worked for my kids, so
Deena Kordt 28:39
well and if you aren't honest, it undermines the trust they have in all areas. And in in in general and how you know, it really shakes their whole foundation so early it like you say they know they see so just just be open about it, you know, you're human and it gives them that encouragement. Any last bit of advice you'd like to leave with the listeners Now I do want to tell them that all your contact information will be in the show notes so they can reach out to you directly if they would like to learn more about how you can help them or point them towards the help that that you would have in your network. But what was the last piece of advice that you would leave with someone whose biggest
Dawn Shandley 29:26
thing is is is when you're having these hard conversations is remember that your responses every single time we're going to be emotional base every single time because you're in this drama right? Try and pick out that emotional component and be like, Am I making an emotional component pics picture that stop sign and know that this doesn't last forever? This component of your life if you can reach out and get people to support you with financial support whether it's selling your house divorce coaching somebody you can To help you with your communication, like I teach clients how to communicate with their spouses, when those text messages and emails do come in, how to respond. And if you need to respond to that you're not, you know, your heart isn't racing, and you're not sweating and having these reactions, that component is huge. But you usually can't do that by yourself to reach out people, no people in your circle want to support you. Maybe they don't know how to so then reach out to people like us. And there's all these connections for you. So know that you don't have to go through this alone. And there are people out there that have lived it and survived it and can promise you that you're going to come out the other side of it, it's so important to know that that's
Deena Kordt 30:42
encouraging. Because, yeah, don't do it alone. It's exhausting. And it just brings them right out to try and think of that emotion. And
Dawn Shandley 30:52
then where does that go to it comes out on your kids, you're too tired to help them, you're going to snap at them, you're going to be like, you're just so depleted, your bucket is empty, you got to keep your bucket full. How do you do that? You you lean on other professionals, you lean on people that can point you in the right direction for the support so that you can be that parent that your children actually need from you. And
Deena Kordt 31:13
there is zero, zero shame in that. Zero shame in that.
Dawn Shandley 31:18
Own it. Take that power back.
Deena Kordt 31:20
Yeah, people want to help and like you say, it's not going to last forever. It doesn't. So reach out and ask for help. And to anybody listening, who knows somebody who could use help - reach in? I really love that too.
Dawn Shandley 31:32
I love that. It's true. I mean, if you let the you know, I mean, especially this time of year with the holidays coming up as I you kind of like, hold that door open for somebody make that difference in their day, like I raised my kids to hold doors open for people compliment somebody if you like their earrings, or because the looks on people's faces because you don't know what they're going through. Right? Think about what we're all going through in our own lives. We all have our own different story. But if someone's like, Wow, your hair looks fantastic today, girl, or Wow, they shoot you. Thank you. That's the difference. It takes one little thing. Reach out to people compliment people send them a text message just thinking about you. It changes people's day.
Deena Kordt 32:13
It can start with it can start with just a smile even it really, really does, right. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for being here today, Dawn, and we're going to have you back again, and have some more topics like this that can really help and support people and give them
Dawn Shandley 32:27
so many topics. Where do we stop?
Deena Kordt 32:31
We'll just keep going until we solve them all. Always, always
Dawn Shandley 32:33
just know you're not alone. Reach out to people. We're happy to help you every. There's support out there for people.
Deena Kordt 32:42
I hope you found that conversation. insightful, encouraging. And also a reminder to all of us that what we see isn't always as it appears people are going through a lot of things in their lives. And we would want that compassion shared to us. And that is something that we can offer to others without judgment. Instead, be curious and reach out. Reach in, figure out a way that you can make someone's day a little better and it might just start with a smile. I thank you very much for spending your time with me here today. And encourage you to please subscribe to the podcast, follow us on social media. Check out our events, we have lots of ways that we can help you or someone that you love. Share this with a friend that there's someone that you know, could benefit from this. And hey, keep smiling that beautiful smile because the world really does need your sunshine.
It means a lot that you spend this time with us and meet our experts and professionals who can help you through whatever life changes you're facing. Please refer to our terms of service available on our website Lifechangesmag.com The link is in the show notes. Our disclaimer, Divorce Magazine Canada, Life Changes Magazine and channel and divorce resource groups are intended to educate and provide quality credible resource information. The content should not be used as factual until consultation with the appropriate professionals for any guidance, Divorce Magazine Canada, Life Changes Magazine and Life Changes Channel as well as the divorce resource groups do not constitute endorsements for nor liability for any claims made in the presenting of this information.
